John,mr.john.coates wrote: Incidently, where is Mr. H in all this? If the CCT is a known weakness, are Honda not offering an improved 'fail-safe' replacement?
Many thanks
Mr. John
The stopper mod link:
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=19416
A petition was got-up many years ago (IIRC by the US of A forum, the Superhawk Forum. The Superhawk being what they call the Firestorm) which was signed by many Superhawk and Firestorm owners. It was asking Honda to recognise this problem with the CCT's and do something to rectify it. On submission to Honda, Honda would not accept that this was a problem and dismissed it. I would have directed you to a link for the petition/letter, but it's no longer available. OK admittedly not all owners have a problem from a CCT failure on this bike, but I think I'm pretty safe in saying many do. Obviously on this site it's going to look worse than it is, as a lot of Firestorm owners only start searching the Internet once they have a CCT failure. On a brighter note most of the big four Japanese manufacturers have produced models that have had CCT problems, so Honda is not alone in this.
bazza696 wrote:Just one question why would do the stopper mod, you have all the hassle of taking the bike apart and set up the timing correctly only to do it all again when the cct fails(and it will fail for certain). when they fail you will have to purchase new ccts from honda at around 65 quid for the pair and go through all the same hassel.
manuals are a once fit solution.
alternative_vtr wrote:I gave this a lot of thought and the work involved in changing the CCT's is such that why do the stopper mod as it doesn't stop the Honda CCT's failing it just means when they do you keep your engine but you still have to tear the bike apart to change them again and then do another stopper mod on a new pair. I think the manuals are the way to go as once the work is done it's done forever apart from adjustment which seems to be virtually none required from what people say.
I only do about 3000 miles a year on a bike so I reckon my manual ones will last years before adjustment is required and even then it's easier than changing them.
Bazza and Alternative, the reason why one would want to do the Stopper Mod is so that the standard CCT's can work as designed by Mr Honda. The standard CCT self adjust as the rev's alter. By fitting a manual cam chain tensioner you have removed that facility.
Carl, that's the beauty of the Stopper Mod. Providing the modification is carried out correctly you can still ride the bike home in the event of a failure.cybercarl wrote:I decided to go for full manuals for the same reasons Bazza explained above. The Honda ones will still fail one day and will need replacing. Not only is this going to leave one stranded and the possibility of having to call roadside assistance (tow truck) but when they fail they are more expensive to replace and the time taken out to replace them.
When set up right there is no more rattle with the manuals than you get with the auto's before the engine warms up to full operating temperature. The biggest worry for me was the thought of being left stranded and this would play on my mind while riding the bike. This was always a worry before I done the conversion. The thought of not if but when.
(:-})
Tony, I'll try to answer you questiontony.mon wrote:I'll ask the question again, and still haven't had a good answer, the engineering solution to what problem?mr.john.coates wrote: it was and remains the right engineering solution, it was just poorly implemented..
What is it that a retractable cct has that's an advantage?
The ability to retract slightly under off-load conditions means that there will be a little less tension on the chain and so engine power is slightly gained, but only off-throttle when you aren't using any anyway.
It can't affect fuel consumption, there's no problem with chain life, so although it will extend chain life, possibly, that doesn't have any benefit either....
So what is it that a stopper mod does that has a beneficial gain or effect that a properly set-up stopper mod doesn't?
It's only my opinion and could be complete boll*x but here goes all the same. A spinning chain (such as a cam chain) gains more centrifugal force the faster it goes, so this means the chain stretches and has more slack in it. This is where the self adjusting CCT comes in, it takes up the slack. So to put it in a nut shell, the manual tensioner will only be at the correct tension in part of the rev range. Tony, that's why it's very important to use a locking key, and tape to hold it in the correct position before removing the CCT. Providing that procedure (link for this I've posted above) is carried out correctly it's impossible to fit a stopper that's too long, because if it is the plunger head will not fit back on.tony.mon wrote: BTW, a poorly done stopper mod (stopper too long, not measured properly, insufficient clearance and too-tight chain) is going to cause just as much damage as a too-tightly-set manual.
Either is an infinitely better solution than Honda's balls-up, but what's this better engineering solution that's spoken of?
To anyone reading this, just to make it clear, I'm not trying to promote one mod over the other here. It's your bike so you must decide which way you want to go. As already said, it would be foolish to trust the standard CCT's with no modification at all, even brand new CCT's cannot be relied on.
Chris.
